If anyone witnessed this in London please get ahold of the author of that article. Will write more later, but definitely not a surprise to read about officers on a power trip. It's just sad to see it goes way too far sometimes.
5 comments:
Anonymous
said...
As much as it sucks to read about this kind of thing, I'm not on board with the author of that article either.
While it does sound excessive from what he wrote, getting in an officer's face in the middle of a volatile situation is a pretty stupid thing to do. You have no idea what happened before seeing the guy get chased and nailed. Maybe it was nothing, maybe he assaulted someone, maybe it was the cop that had received an elbow to the face right before that. He had no idea but decided to get involved anyway.
It does sound like the cop may have crossed the line, but it's up to the guy that was hit to make the complaint about what happened to him. Even if this guy could on his behalf, he had enough information to make a complaint already and walk away. Continuing to challenge an officer in the middle of an arrest and given the circumstances wasn't helping anyone.
I'm not saying he deserved what happened to him. He should complain and defend himself in court if what he says is true. At the same time, if his original goal was to do something about that situation, he should have spoken to other people around him about what had happened and been a witness for the guy that got assaulted.
I really don't care what the officer did to that one dude on the ground, because it's true - we have no idea what transpired previously.
I'm all for cops using excessive force if the person at the receiving end actually deserves it (we could go on and on about who determines that of course).
But the onlooker who made the comment doesn't have anything to do with the situation directly. I'm not saying the officer wouldn't have felt some animosity towards him, but if I was the cop, and I'd already beaten some dude on the ground, I wouldn't start going after witnesses on the street.
I realize also it's always very possible to keep one's mouth shut, but some people can't resist.
It doesn't mean they should be detained for that though.
On the other hand, in Russia for example, you'd be damn sure to watch what you say since this thing would be relatively common I'd think.
This could just be my naive attitude towards communist countries since I've never experienced it, but citizens, although they may have similar negative views of police officers, tend to show them more respect since they're aware of the consequences if they misbehave.
So am I contradicting myself now?
We're just accustomed to a level of authority in this country that may be somewhat soft. And whenever people cross the line and it backfires on us, it's a shock to the system and people whip out their lawyer's business card and begin dialing.
I wouldn't want the police to bust in on me for no reason whatsoever, but I since I've done nothing wrong that shouldn't happen anyway.
As you and I both know, I'm the first one to shout and scream at the TV during Law & Order when certain evidence against an obvious suspect is thrown out due to some sort devitation from proper procedures. But on one of those nights where I'm just feelin like running my mouth off, I wouldn't wanna be detained by police just by making comments during unusual circumstances.
Ya, I'm not arguing with you there. I don't think anyone should be sent to prison for merely saying something, but context makes a difference in situations like this.
He chose to intervene and become part of what was obviously a tense situation. He says he was standing 5 feet from the officer - that's pretty close. Also, this apparently all took place outside a bar after someone was chased and in the midst of being arrested. So this could have been a bar fight (who knows, just guessing) where multiple people were involved. Chosing that time to make smartass comments in the middle of an arrest and continuing to provoke a confrontation with the cop is what got him into trouble. I'm not saying he deserved what happened to him, it sounds like the cop overreacted, but I see it as quite different from making a comment to a cop as you walk past on the street.
I'm not a fan of cops on power trips either...this guy just doesn't sell me that he was an innocent bystander trying to help out. I dunno...maybe I've just been in China too long :P
Nobody can "deserve" the use of "excessive force" on them since the very meaning of excessive is TOO MUCH. And somebody who's already been tackled and punched in the face enough so that they "lay motionless on the ground" does not require "being sat up and getting a swift knee to the face".
As far the author interfering, he was probably trying to help stop the excessive force, something he saw that wasn't right. The cop told him to back off so "I backed away and waited until the two cops had carried their suspect into the paddy wagon and locked the door. Once it was clear that the officers were done arresting and securing the man in the vehicle, I again requested the officer's badge number from a distance of four or five feet." If that's true then he waited until they were done and then made his request.
Those are just two thoughts that come to mind after reading the comments here. I'm not really here to debate this but wanted to point those quotes out in case ppl overlooked them when reading the article / posting a comment. Thanks to Alex for helping spread the word for the author. dazz.
To ka_boom, I appreciate where you're coming from and I think it's good to be aware of and speak out on these issues. Here I just think its important to take a step back. There are a lot of examples of police brutality that are worthy of our outrage - this just may not be one of them. The best thing this guy could have done would have been to serve as a witness for the person who was being arrested.
As far as the author goes, none of us were there, and we are all relying on what he wrote. From that, I'm not sure this guy is really an example of someone trying to do the right thing despite what he writes. "Standing about five feet away from them, I stated that it would be difficult for the man to get up after he had been kneed in the face." He didn't say "officer, please stop, he's hurt" or "you're going to kill him". He made a sarcastic comment to the cop involved. To me, it sounds more like an onlooker who got caught up in the situation with his comments and who became angry after being shoved by the cop rather than someone taking a stand against excessive force. If you follow the quote you reference about waiting till everything was done, he keeps pressing the police officer for the badge # (which he doesn't need to make a complaint anyway). It's not one additional request, he continues to push the confrontation that began with his comments instead of walking away and making his complaint.
Like I said earlier...if what he said is true he should challenge all of this in court and pursue his complaints as well. I just don't think he should be doing it wrapped in the flag of human rights and taking a stand against police brutality given what he says he did.
5 comments:
As much as it sucks to read about this kind of thing, I'm not on board with the author of that article either.
While it does sound excessive from what he wrote, getting in an officer's face in the middle of a volatile situation is a pretty stupid thing to do. You have no idea what happened before seeing the guy get chased and nailed. Maybe it was nothing, maybe he assaulted someone, maybe it was the cop that had received an elbow to the face right before that. He had no idea but decided to get involved anyway.
It does sound like the cop may have crossed the line, but it's up to the guy that was hit to make the complaint about what happened to him. Even if this guy could on his behalf, he had enough information to make a complaint already and walk away. Continuing to challenge an officer in the middle of an arrest and given the circumstances wasn't helping anyone.
I'm not saying he deserved what happened to him. He should complain and defend himself in court if what he says is true. At the same time, if his original goal was to do something about that situation, he should have spoken to other people around him about what had happened and been a witness for the guy that got assaulted.
Kev, I see your point in one way.
I really don't care what the officer did to that one dude on the ground, because it's true - we have no idea what transpired previously.
I'm all for cops using excessive force if the person at the receiving end actually deserves it (we could go on and on about who determines that of course).
But the onlooker who made the comment doesn't have anything to do with the situation directly. I'm not saying the officer wouldn't have felt some animosity towards him, but if I was the cop, and I'd already beaten some dude on the ground, I wouldn't start going after witnesses on the street.
I realize also it's always very possible to keep one's mouth shut, but some people can't resist.
It doesn't mean they should be detained for that though.
On the other hand, in Russia for example, you'd be damn sure to watch what you say since this thing would be relatively common I'd think.
This could just be my naive attitude towards communist countries since I've never experienced it, but citizens, although they may have similar negative views of police officers, tend to show them more respect since they're aware of the consequences if they misbehave.
So am I contradicting myself now?
We're just accustomed to a level of authority in this country that may be somewhat soft. And whenever people cross the line and it backfires on us, it's a shock to the system and people whip out their lawyer's business card and begin dialing.
I wouldn't want the police to bust in on me for no reason whatsoever, but I since I've done nothing wrong that shouldn't happen anyway.
As you and I both know, I'm the first one to shout and scream at the TV during Law & Order when certain evidence against an obvious suspect is thrown out due to some sort devitation from proper procedures. But on one of those nights where I'm just feelin like running my mouth off, I wouldn't wanna be detained by police just by making comments during unusual circumstances.
Wow... end Chapter 1.
Ya, I'm not arguing with you there. I don't think anyone should be sent to prison for merely saying something, but context makes a difference in situations like this.
He chose to intervene and become part of what was obviously a tense situation. He says he was standing 5 feet from the officer - that's pretty close. Also, this apparently all took place outside a bar after someone was chased and in the midst of being arrested. So this could have been a bar fight (who knows, just guessing) where multiple people were involved. Chosing that time to make smartass comments in the middle of an arrest and continuing to provoke a confrontation with the cop is what got him into trouble. I'm not saying he deserved what happened to him, it sounds like the cop overreacted, but I see it as quite different from making a comment to a cop as you walk past on the street.
I'm not a fan of cops on power trips either...this guy just doesn't sell me that he was an innocent bystander trying to help out. I dunno...maybe I've just been in China too long :P
Nobody can "deserve" the use of "excessive force" on them since the very meaning of excessive is TOO MUCH. And somebody who's already been tackled and punched in the face enough so that they "lay motionless on the ground" does not require "being sat up and getting a swift knee to the face".
As far the author interfering, he was probably trying to help stop the excessive force, something he saw that wasn't right. The cop told him to back off so "I backed away and waited until the two cops had carried their suspect into the paddy wagon and locked the door. Once it was clear that the officers were done arresting and securing the man in the vehicle, I again requested the officer's badge number from a distance of four or five feet." If that's true then he waited until they were done and then made his request.
Those are just two thoughts that come to mind after reading the comments here. I'm not really here to debate this but wanted to point those quotes out in case ppl overlooked them when reading the article / posting a comment.
Thanks to Alex for helping spread the word for the author.
dazz.
To ka_boom, I appreciate where you're coming from and I think it's good to be aware of and speak out on these issues. Here I just think its important to take a step back. There are a lot of examples of police brutality that are worthy of our outrage - this just may not be one of them. The best thing this guy could have done would have been to serve as a witness for the person who was being arrested.
As far as the author goes, none of us were there, and we are all relying on what he wrote. From that, I'm not sure this guy is really an example of someone trying to do the right thing despite what he writes. "Standing about five feet away from them, I stated that it would be difficult for the man to get up after he had been kneed in the face." He didn't say "officer, please stop, he's hurt" or "you're going to kill him". He made a sarcastic comment to the cop involved. To me, it sounds more like an onlooker who got caught up in the situation with his comments and who became angry after being shoved by the cop rather than someone taking a stand against excessive force. If you follow the quote you reference about waiting till everything was done, he keeps pressing the police officer for the badge # (which he doesn't need to make a complaint anyway). It's not one additional request, he continues to push the confrontation that began with his comments instead of walking away and making his complaint.
Like I said earlier...if what he said is true he should challenge all of this in court and pursue his complaints as well. I just don't think he should be doing it wrapped in the flag of human rights and taking a stand against police brutality given what he says he did.
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